- Most of you all admitted that you never have suffered much. It showed. Many of you seemingly didn't know how to speak truth in a manner that is winsome and helpful. Many of you all did what John Stonestreet talked about: "Romans 8:28... It'll work out fine! Trust God!" That's not helpful to someone whose heart is shattered and when it hurts to pray.
- Very few of you told Doug to pray for Amy, care for Amy, or encourage her. Romans 12:15 says to "mourn with those who mourn." That's a command. Remember also: "We urge you, brothers, admonish the idle, encourage the fainthearted, help the weak, be patient with them all" (1 Thessalonians 5:14 ESV). Notice that you need to figure out the category of folks. Amy is not idle (meaning lazy); she is fainthearted. So she needs encouragement, not to be corrected in a direct way. Sometimes correction is needed, but it must be (according to this verse) encouraging, helpful and patient. I'd call very few of your letters encouraging and patient.
- Jeff and I agreed that we would never say, "God planned for your brother to die." On some levels it's true because he is sovereign and can stop anything, but it's also misleading and unhelpful. He would quote this: “The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things that are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law" (Deuteronomy 29:29 ESV). In other words, we can't say with certainty why Amy's brother died. God sovereignly allowed it for a reason, but we don't know why or how God decided for it to happen. Those things are secret and not for us to understand. We can only know the things that are revealed to us, and that is that he loves us, cares for us, and promises give us peace and strength when we need it. That's clear, so talk about that.
- [EDITED 11/6] In the world God created, there was no death. Romans 5:12 says, “By one man sin entered the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.” Death was not part of God's perfect creation and will not be part of his perfected eternity. In the meantime, our world is fallen, and God allows sin and death to remain here. Jeff would tell a person doubting and hurting that while in this fallen world, God is in the business of redeeming. He redeems fallen people and he redeems terrible situations. That's true and helpful!
- Few of you used scriptures to prove your point. Remember, if Doug is doubting that God is in control, point him to verses that show that he is. Prove your point biblically, otherwise it's your opinion about God versus Doug's.
Just a few thoughts. Hope it helps.
Thanks, Mr. Graves. That was very beneficial!
ReplyDeleteExcellent and helpful observations. Thanks
ReplyDeleteForgive me if I sound disrespectful, but I don't believe your fourth point is correct. From what I understand, death was always a part of God's ultimate plan before the world even existed, similar to sin. In the end, it brings glory to God. The way you put it kind of questions God's omnipotence and sovereignty, doesn't it?
ReplyDeleteWhy are you posting anonymously? We are all friends here. You aren't going to fail because you question the teacher. So from now on, tell us who you are.
ReplyDeleteI will edit that point. I can see how it was misunderstood. So thanks for pointing that out. I agree that God is sovereign over death, and that now death is part of the world he rules over. I was not trying to question his sovereignty, but I can see how you saw that in what I said.
Still, as I read the Bible, it seems clear that in the Garden of Eden, there was no death. Genesis 2:17 warns Adam that if you sin, “you will surely die." Romans 5:12 says, “By one man sin entered the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.” So this language is one of death and sin "entering" the world. It was not there in God's perfect creation. Also, Revelation 21:4 says that one day there will be no more death. So in the ideal world that God created and will restore one day, there is no death. So in that sense, God's perfect plan does not include death. That's what the Bible seems to say. Correct me if you see it differently.
But yes, in this fallen world, God gave us death. He is sovereign over death. Psalm 139 tells us that God has written down every one of our days. He decides when we die. He is sovereign in the act of sending death into his creation and sovereign over when we die. And I agree that he knew that sin and death would come, but it was not something he created and called "good."
I hope this clarifies things. Please let me know if it does. And tell me who you are!
I'm sorry, I wasn't intending to appear so secretive with my identity. I don't have an account to post with (a.k.a. I'm not very blog savvy), so I just stuck with anonymous. Thank you for clarifying though. I agree with how you talked about death, it was just that one statement that bothered me, but I figured it was just a misunderstanding on my part. Thank you again. I'll be sure to publish my name as well next time.
Delete~McClayne
By the way, that person up there was not me.
ReplyDeleteBlaise probably just accidentally signed in as me.
ReplyDelete